tks paull ... re #205 and #206 i am just mindful that i am after a logo that can do everything (from product packaging to print, to promotional items) ... which is why im going for a more simple design thats easy to reproduce ... unfort, block colours won't work very well for everything im looking to do, so i still favour #116 out of your designs ... i like + appreciate, how you have tried to take it up a notch, look fwd to seeing what else you can do