My ideas are as follows: #40 tree forming caduceus #39 The tree form the inside of the A #38 & #37 tree forming the whole A.
I added the medicinal cross, in white, I cannot do any "red" crosses as the American Red Cross owns copyright to it and is very strict about it's use. Your feedback and/or changes as to fonts color, layout... are most welcome.
I really like the new design ideas! Can I see a tree #41 without the cross? Perhaps the trunk is a caduceus or maybe add a runner on the beach or within the A? New and nice design concept with the scenery within the A #39. Thanks for your hard work!
I like the scenery and colors on #49 but not a huge fan of the colorful cadeusus. Any thoughts on making the caduceus more subtle? Any suggestions on adding any sport themes? (runner, baseball, track, etc)
Thanks for the ranking and feedback, it very helpful. :)
I'll be reworking them, some more. I was a bit skeptical about the caduceus's color too, but I figured, I'd at least get it in in case I miss tomorrows deadline. I'll also will make your suggested changes. I was thinking about the figure and I think I will a running person. I think the runner is the best graphic to represent sports in general without looking like the practice is very specific to one type of sport.
What's funny is that I did the tree before even before reading the Stanford logo reference. I initially put the tree over the S and thought, Oh no, that looks like Stanford's logo. I spent my early years living in Escondido Village on Stanford's campus, while my folks did their Masters there. Maybe tha's why I had the logo engraved in my head. - LOL
Thanks, marcelo! I like your new ideas. I really want variety from which to choose. I can't help but thinking something will just grab me and I'll say, That's the one! I'm not sure we are exactly there yet... but I do have some very nice designs from which to choose. Your thoughts ont he caduceus and red wood were similar to mine- that is neat that you used to live near Stanford. It is a beautiful place. I agree with a runner representing athletics well. Plus, that was my sport so personally it would be fun to incooperate this in a design. I am still very open to new ideas- slight variations or totally different. I liked some of the more simple designs you did too- monicolor like the starbucks logo... Please continue to use your creativity!
I just got word that there's an extension which brings us into the holidays. This means that some may no longer have the time or they will have to spend time away from family in order to make revisions and work on the contest.
The reason that I enter entries late in the first place, is that that the open phase is the phase where most likely copying will occur. Unfortunately an extension of an open phase becomes an invitation for copiers. In the Top 5 phase, only the top 5 ranked designers can continue submitting. That lessens the chance that they will be copying from each other and actually makes some designers get more creative to outdo each other (upping the ante so to speak.)
Anyway, I did quite a few new designs and uploaded them, Hopefully not too many people saw them. :) I withdrew as many as I could and made enter others as decoys. I still want you to see them but it will have to wait to the last hour on Xmas eve.
If I am not around, I want to thank you for your previous kind words and wish the best for your contest.
Hi Marcelo, Thank you for submission of some new designs and ideas. I also appreciate your educating me on this process. I had requested an increase in days in the first or second day when I was having a difficult time changing some of my contest details and uploading pictures. I had no intention of making things more difficult for the designers! I can only be cognizant of the submission order and recognize that the original should get the credit. Over the next few days I will be looking for completely different ideas. At the end, I will choose the top 5 designers and work with them on additional changes to come up with the winning logo.
I do hope that you will submit your additional designs. I think you have made the competition more competitive and helped make me optimistic that my new business will be represented well by a really cool logo! I will put out a statement publicly stating some of the above for additional designers. Again, thank you for your efforts and I look forward to seeing what you have hidden away! :)
BTW- nice new work- I like the idea of three symbols over the ASM (82). I like the very new look of 78. Also enjoying 84, 85. I will reflect more on them this weekend…
Thanks for the comment. No problem on the extension. :) It happens quite a bit, but I wanted to give you the heads up, that because of the 3 phases (Open, Top 5, and Judging), you may encounter some designers being out. My big issue, believe it or not, is that I will find out if I have jury duty on Monday and the next week. Talk about timing - lol. I would have figured that there would be no jury duty this coming week. Anyway, I'll know today after 5pm. I did several of the revision and new ideas, too. If you don't mind, I reinstate them this weekend. I see that there has only been one new entry so far. These designers are all quality designers, so as far as the top 5 here are concerned they are very respectable and would avoid clashing and infringing on another designer. It's the new less experienced design and may have different ethics about what is and is not acceptable derivatives of another's design that worries me. I think when a contest gets into Top 5, the remaining designers can let out a sigh of relief, knowing that there won't be a last minute entry which can be considered a copy or (very typically) a combination of the top 2 or 3 ranked designs.
Anyway, just want to let you know that I was very happy with the changes I did, but still plan on mulling over some new ideas. In the Top 5 phase, you will have additional days to request modifications to any new entries.
BTW - The more monochromatic versions I did are the more subtle versions of the actual full color and more elaborate designs.
As you may have noticed in my profile, I now have over 30 years advertising and marketing experience. I think your friend is missing the mark and reading to much into the design. I don't mean that in a bad way, but the logo is used for branding and recognition. Take a look at the top brands of the world, Apple, Nike, Starbucks, IBM, HP, Coca Cola, Ford... and you'll see that the logos invoke recognition, not necessarily an emotion of any sort. However the part about too much red hold some merit, that is why I threw in #91. I felt the #51 was a bit over aggressive. I understand that crowdsourcing is a very difficult and risky way to brand yourself, because of the limitations of communication. It's not like we can do a one on one consult. That is why these sites are infamous for producing cookie cutter designs. People gravitate to what they feel is safe and cliché. Take a look at real estate logo contest and you see that 99% of the clients here ended up looking like their competition. Ironically, they mostly start out stating that they want to stand out from their competition (as they should) and in the end (usually swayed by someone with no marketing experience, they end up with a typical red or blue roofline). Every industry has their overused cliché, be it the famous overdone swoosh people, (reaching, running, jumping...) to the futuristic car silhouette for auto related businesses. Sadly this is usually the same work that one could have purchased for $5 on a clipart site. :(
Unfortunately, as designers, here we can usually only offer-up what the client wants, so if they want to blend in, then that's what we will design.
To stress my point, you referenced some designs you like, none which had a sterile conservative or corporate feel to it. It is that emotion (yours) the should dictate your logo. You have to ask yourself, does my logo make me stand out from the other sport medicine practices? Is there something unique to it?
Keep in mind that people do not go to see a doctor on a whim (like going out to dinner) it is usually out of necessity. Unless it is a reference it will most like be about location. Also you must factor in the Arcata market and demographics. If the logo is to look like a corporate entity or to blend in with the competition then then it becomes just signage.
I will rework this but because the only we only have Christmas day to work on this before the contest effectively ends, you may need to request an extension of the Top 5 phase.
Anyway, thanks for reading and have a Merry Christmas. :)
Hi Marcelo, I certainly do appreciate your feedback and experience. I am not really interested in a cooperate feel and thus have not been interested the basic green and blue designs previously. I respect this persons opinion as a psychologist, but agree that people will be coming to see me based on reputation and not my logo. It may be naive, but I want to enjoy the logo on business cards, etc. The large lettered ASM helps provide some easily recognizable recognition. (See ASMI- where I trained, they have ASMI in black with nice blue background and a thrower in the A- it looks nice…) I have had feedback since the contest started that the "back on track" may not be the best by line due to a prior failed business in the area using something similar. I am discussing with lawyers now how I might incooperate "orthopedics" into the name- AOSM, for example. To me this is a bit secondary as I was hoping for a strong logo from this contest, knowing that there may be some small changes in the upcoming months. My understanding is that I might be able to continue to work with the designer if changes in name needed to be made, for an additional fee, of course.
Again, really appreciate your feedback. You will definitely be in the top 5 (which puts you in the next phase, right?), especially since I feel that you are trying hard to work with me and we communicate very well. Please feel free to continue giving your more experienced opinion!!!! I respect it!!
oh, and I agree 91 is too much. Also thinking of getting rid of cross altogether since the practice is mostly elective surgical, not as much "medical."
Night owl- your comments have inspired me. Please see picture (la foto) that I just downloaded. I think these colors with your ASM would be awesome!!! Simple, clean, sporty, and the colors I love!!!! Thanks for working over the holidays and coming up with some great ideas which helped inspire this last one! I'm excited to see it in "print."
Hi night owl, i am just now seeing your new designs… for some reason I was not notified! Sorry for the delay. The jersey has me wondering what a more simple but very sporty design might look like. What about an all cobalt blue rectangle with your ASM and perhaps "orthopedic specialist" in script? Not sure where to spell out what ASM stands for, but open to suggestions. Again, my inspiration is the sporty, great colored, simple but clean and effective appearance of the jersey.
look up American Sports Medicine Institute (ASMI). Their logo is just ASMI with a baseball player in the A. Not sure I could just put a runner in the A and have a simllar look? The big difference would be the colors- cobalt blue back ground and rich sunny yellow letters. If we can get it looking classy, sporty, clean, effective… this is what separates my logo from the competition….
HI! The top 5 designer entry got skipped for some reason. If you have designs ready, great! Please let me see them! The other option is to switch the top spot so others can post their last designs.
Hey, Marcelo. I guess you are waiting till the end of the top 5 competition. Terrible timing with the holidays on my part. I am really waiting to see what I've laid out to you above. you still in this? Hope I didn't tick you off with all the time line snafus……
Just got back, were out of town for a few days. Unfortunately, I did was not around to work on these and now the contest is in judging mode. :(
Did you ask for the logo colors to be in RGB instead of CMYK? RGB definitely produces brighter colors BUT only for monitors and TV which is fine, if you are not planning to use the logo for any printing. Anyway, I will not be able to upload unless there is an extension. If you do extend the contest, please let me know if I should convert the colors from CMYK (for printing) to RGB (for monitors).
Gracias
Marcelo
If you have any questions on the different color space and printing and when and why one should be used and not the other (or printing in general) feel free to ask. :)
Hi Marcelo, Good to hear from you. Yes, you will have to explain the RGB and CMYK. I doubt it will be used on TV much... most of this is for business cards, letterhead, signs, maybe t-shirts....
I took to heart your advice and inspiration from the jersey and think that a logo that allows my practice to be "represented" by cobalt blue would be cool- blue paper, etc. It would set me apart from others.... I've written to the help line asking that you be able to submit more designs according to our prior discussion. Additionally, I think the by-line will be changing due to some CA legality and local politics... should not effect the design but I will want the final product to reflect the final name.
I just uploaded quite a few more concepts (don't worry, I'll reinstate every design shortly.) I want for you to be able to review them and then see if you would like me to mix any elements of one design into another.
For #169, #170, #171, #172 I want to show you what I mean about RGB and CMYK color and why LT should prohibit designers from submitting in RGB unless the client is very specific that they will not be using the logo in "print". Of course that would be a bit silly since almost every client will need to print their logo at some time.
Please take a look at #170 and #171. Those are in RGB (RGB means Red, Green, Blue) colors which is what our computer monitors use. Notice that the color is very bright and vibrant. #169 and #172 are in CMYK so they are not as bright on screen. The problem is the the printing process uses CMYK, like the inks you may see in an inkjet printer at home or work. (CMYK means Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black) Printing can also use Spot colors, which are hand mixed inks but CMYK is by far more economical and it's the way to go for multi-color projects. The problem is that files can be converted, but a designer should always assume that whatever they design will eventually be printed. Therefore, the designs should be been done in CMYK. If one designs in CMYK, the colors will appear truer when converted to RGB for websites and such. However, when one designs in RGB to later convert it to CMYK there can be serious issues because some colors can never be reproduced in printing.
Putting it another way: RGB can create over 16 million colors, CMYK can only create 60 – 70% of those colors. This means there are about 7 million colors that cannot be printed. I understand this is a bit technical, but most clients will eventually figure this out when their file is either turned away from printers or it is run and the they get the awful realization that the design looks nothing like what they had previously seen. I have spoken with Ivan (the site administrator) about warning designers about presenting RGB files. It is unfair for experienced designers and the client alike. Unfortunately this is akin to a "bait and switch", I would rather that we find a color which looks good in print since that is what is more important. The logo can alway be done in RGB afterwards for your website but the main focus should be a print ready design. Please feel free to ask Ivan about the difference in RGB and CMYK or even a local printer can confirm what I am saying.
Also, don't worry about the tagline, that can be changed at any time (even after the contest is over).
Anyway, I'll be back on line in the morning, so if you have any question please feel free to ask. :)
Marcelo, Very cool of you to take the time to educate me on this process. I love the 4 new designs. Im not sure part of your request was that i didnt rank them so theyre not copied? Ill wait to hear your responce before ranking... Ive asked LT but hsvent heard back yet. Can you still submit small changes in judging?
Okay, i like the bright better but i also like economical! I love the royal blues of the RGB- prob slightly prefer 170 over 171. 172 is my favorite color of the CMYK. What can you do in cmyk that is close to either royal or cobalt blue? I like the solid stripe of 172 better than the cat stripes but this may besegondsry yo the white contrast. What would the stripes look like filled in white or red? Can you look up the ASMI (american sports medicine institute)? It is where i am training ... Would it be a copyright violation to put the runner in red? It might not look better but it would be interesting to see if its not a violation of their logo...
Finally, as an experienced designer, out of all the logos youve created for me, do YOU have a favorite from an economical, marketing or other standpoint?
Finally, If i go with the blue background logo it would be in part because i want the color blue to be representative of the buissness... If i print letterhead on a lighter blue paper, the logo might need to stand alone. Do you think black? outline of ASM is therfore an important thing to do?
Don't worry about changes during judging. That can be done by any designer that is ranked in first place. If the concern is fine tuning, then no need to worry about that either. Most designers (self included) will still make revisions even after they have been selected and the contest is complete.
As you can see and by what you ranked you can see that there is a marked difference in how colors look. The RGB is MUCH brighter, but it will NEVER look like this in print. :( That is why we should not be presenting them . There are plenty of very nice printable blues, and those color adjustments can be made at any time (all file we provide can be edited. By showing you these blues (in RGB) we would be creating an unrealistic expectation for you. Unfortunately that can of worms have now been open. (Please do not base color on #170 and #171, these are RGB and only presented for comparison.) The logo can be done for your website, like this but there is no way to get this in print. Also, keep in mind that a monitor is lit and provide the eye with light from behind whereas print is color on paper and light is only reflected off the paper.
As for the red runner, no problem. No copyright issue either. As long as there is no similarity to the ASMI logo the icon used are fair and open to all. (In other words, a baseball player in the "A" might be an issue, not sure if the runner in the "A" might be a problem, I think that would depend on what the ASMI feels is to close. That would then be a trademark attorney issue, but I really don't think that the ASMI's logo is so unique as to cause any problem.)
The background concern should not be a problem, of course you would never be printing a whole sheet with a blue background, but any print collateral can be designed so the logo would always sits on a blue field. Unfortunately, we are not allowed to present how the logo might appear on cards, letterhead, envelopes, signs... That is something that will need to be addressed after the contest is over.