Forum
Client
Reposted from CH Forum:
We had some good discussion with the designers on our last contest about the process or ranking and rewarding designers for their effort. Now that I've finished a second contest, I have some suggestions for LT on the ranking process that would simplify things for CHs so they don't have to know anything about the point system and won't unintentially offend some designers as I'm sure we did.
The suggestion would be to have 4 bins instead of 3. The 4 bins would be:
1. The New and Unranked Pool (same as now)
2. The Show Pool (a new column with "Receives 1 point and <blue ribbon>" above)
3. The Ranked Pool (only allow top 10 to be added)
4. The Not Interested Pool
To make room for this suggestion on the Ranking screen the NI pool doesn't really need to be seen along side the other pools because as the contest goes on it's all Withdrawn entries anyway. So the NI column could just be an Icon that expands when clicked in case you wanted to pull a design back out. The top 10 Ranked Pool doesn't need to be as big as the other 2 pools either. It should be a strip of smaller thumbnails so that 10 fit on a typical screen. The New and Unranked Pool and the Show Pool need to be bigger because you're still constantly wanted to see those designs and make decisions. The logos in the Ranked Pool you've looked at many times. Above the Show Pool would be clear instructions. "These Logos receive 1 point and a blue ribbon". In the Ranked column the points awarded should just be shown under the logo so it's very clear that 4-6 receive one point level and 7-10 receive another. As you move a logo into the Ranked Pool, The 10th logo drops out into the Show Pool automatically.
This would save the CHs time also because they don't have to worry about the order of the logos in the Show Pool, just the Top 10.
The problem for us was that we didn't know about the point system and we used the Not Interested column in the beginning when we had decided on a particular concept of a designer and wanted to hide the other concepts. It didn't mean we didn't like the other concepts we just wanted less designs in the New and Unranked Column so we could focus. And we were only adding designs to the Ranked column that were close and wanted to work on variations. So we weren't giving any credit for the designers efforts and this frustrated some designers. The above system would remove any confusion.
The current system is somewhat obscure and one might think that if CHs don't know about the point system you will get better reresentative overall rankings but the problem is, eventually the CH is told by a designer how things work and then they feel obligated to rank at least each concept of everyone who made an effort so they get that one point for entering. Just remove all confusion and make it automatic and clear for everyone.
We had some good discussion with the designers on our last contest about the process or ranking and rewarding designers for their effort. Now that I've finished a second contest, I have some suggestions for LT on the ranking process that would simplify things for CHs so they don't have to know anything about the point system and won't unintentially offend some designers as I'm sure we did.
The suggestion would be to have 4 bins instead of 3. The 4 bins would be:
1. The New and Unranked Pool (same as now)
2. The Show Pool (a new column with "Receives 1 point and <blue ribbon>" above)
3. The Ranked Pool (only allow top 10 to be added)
4. The Not Interested Pool
To make room for this suggestion on the Ranking screen the NI pool doesn't really need to be seen along side the other pools because as the contest goes on it's all Withdrawn entries anyway. So the NI column could just be an Icon that expands when clicked in case you wanted to pull a design back out. The top 10 Ranked Pool doesn't need to be as big as the other 2 pools either. It should be a strip of smaller thumbnails so that 10 fit on a typical screen. The New and Unranked Pool and the Show Pool need to be bigger because you're still constantly wanted to see those designs and make decisions. The logos in the Ranked Pool you've looked at many times. Above the Show Pool would be clear instructions. "These Logos receive 1 point and a blue ribbon". In the Ranked column the points awarded should just be shown under the logo so it's very clear that 4-6 receive one point level and 7-10 receive another. As you move a logo into the Ranked Pool, The 10th logo drops out into the Show Pool automatically.
This would save the CHs time also because they don't have to worry about the order of the logos in the Show Pool, just the Top 10.
The problem for us was that we didn't know about the point system and we used the Not Interested column in the beginning when we had decided on a particular concept of a designer and wanted to hide the other concepts. It didn't mean we didn't like the other concepts we just wanted less designs in the New and Unranked Column so we could focus. And we were only adding designs to the Ranked column that were close and wanted to work on variations. So we weren't giving any credit for the designers efforts and this frustrated some designers. The above system would remove any confusion.
The current system is somewhat obscure and one might think that if CHs don't know about the point system you will get better reresentative overall rankings but the problem is, eventually the CH is told by a designer how things work and then they feel obligated to rank at least each concept of everyone who made an effort so they get that one point for entering. Just remove all confusion and make it automatic and clear for everyone.
Logo Designer
We designers are not offended by not being ranked (at least I am not). I am offended when no feedback is given to myself and yet the CH still ranks and gives feedback to only the top ten and doesn't even consider the newer entries. I enter contests later nearing the end so that the copycats don't have much time to copy my concept idea and pass it off as their own.
But in doing so, I notice that the CH ignores my entries. So the dilemna here is, do I continue to enter late to thwart off the all to willing concept theif and take a chance on being ignored by the CH or do I enter early and hope that the CH's morals are in tact and will not choose another designers entry that clearly uses my concept?
I do realize that a lot of CH's think that if someone takes a small part from someone elses design and changes it enough it makes it their own. That is incorrect!! It is still concept theft no matter how small it may be. And who's to say that I wasn't going that way with improvements anyways. So if I entered my modified original and someone else stole from me and did the same improvements and they enter it before I do, most of the CH's and designers now consider it the other designers concept and now I am the copycat. Now how is that fair? That is why I am so adimant about concept theft at any level and no matter how small of a concept.
But in doing so, I notice that the CH ignores my entries. So the dilemna here is, do I continue to enter late to thwart off the all to willing concept theif and take a chance on being ignored by the CH or do I enter early and hope that the CH's morals are in tact and will not choose another designers entry that clearly uses my concept?
I do realize that a lot of CH's think that if someone takes a small part from someone elses design and changes it enough it makes it their own. That is incorrect!! It is still concept theft no matter how small it may be. And who's to say that I wasn't going that way with improvements anyways. So if I entered my modified original and someone else stole from me and did the same improvements and they enter it before I do, most of the CH's and designers now consider it the other designers concept and now I am the copycat. Now how is that fair? That is why I am so adimant about concept theft at any level and no matter how small of a concept.
Client
Thanks Eightball for the input. Perhaps for a different thread but I'll say that we tried to be very aware of where the original concept came from but I see your point that it's hard to know if other CHs will do the same. From my perspective, I think you are best to take the chance and submit early and put your best work forward. Don't count on the CH to see potential in a rough concept. We have too many concepts to evaluate and when a rough concept is positioned next to one that is nearly polished, its hard for a CH to focus on working with you specifically to develop your concept. I think that you present a very appropriate model for a one on one between designer and client but unfortunately that doesn't lend itself to a contest. In a contest you have to put your best work forward early as if it's going to be the winning logo. The longer the contest goes on the harder it is for the CH to evaluate and provide feedback on new designs.
Logo Designer
See feedback is king. Point well taken, and in the future if you have another contest, please PM me so that I can enter your contest. That way I can insure that I get my entries in early with a CH that cares about concept and the overall design.
Thanks!!!
Thanks!!!