Forum
Client
Hi, everyone. I wanted to post some thoughts before I finish judging our contest (Pillar Property Services, LLC) and maybe then having things not be as fresh in my mind.
Let me start by saying I LOVE this site. Let me repeat - I LOVE this site. There is a load of talent here and the logistics to the contest are very good. I am part of a small business network called The Alternative Board that is in the US, Canada, and Great Britain with about 3,400 members. I showed an organization executive this site (my contest) and he was blown away by it. Even the woman who runs a public relations and advertising firm in my Denver group was highly impressed. Hopefully, this will lead to some more business comng in.
Now. for some specifics comments in no particular order:
1) Great talent! Congrats, designers. I could have picked any of about 12 designs and loved them!! Honestly! Which leads me to...
2) I love the international flavor, too. I get to brag about my designers in Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. You were all very polite and professional. Which leads me to...
3) This is fun. For future CH's, use this as a team-building exercise. I had my employees follow from Day One and some followed it more than I did. Got their feedback frequently. Which leads me to...
4) I used a 10-day contest. I suspect no matter what the time period selected, the middle part will experience a lull. At first I thought I'd recommend the 7-day contest to future CH's but I realized that designers have other things going on in their lives, too, just like we contest holders do when we tell you why we couldn't give feedback for a day or two. Which leads me to...
5) "Late" entries - I totally understand from other designer forum contests why they do this and because I had followed the site for two months I fully anticipated the swarm of entries the last 48 hours. And, like the CH's, designers all have lives, jobs, school, etc., so not everyone can or will submit an entry until late in the contest. Just my thoughts - human nature will favor the ones you've been working with. I think it's a risk to the designer but one I totally understand and don't necessarily think designers should avoid. However, I coudln't really give much feedback to the later entires. Which leads me to..
6) Feedback - this is really the whole key to the contest, isn't it? I tried in mine to respond to every single entry (I think I did - not sure). But I just want the designers to know that I couldn't always give really specific feedback only because those of us (like me) that are artistically challenged really don't know what we want. I'm reminded of a famous quote by a US Supreme Court justice in a pornography censorship case years ago. Basically, he said he couldn't define pronography but he knew it when he saw it. That is sort of my ability - I don't know specifics of good design - just when i saw it. Which leads me to..
7) Not Interested Category - . Maybe I'm too nice a person but I hate telling a designer this. I only moved withdrawals to this category. In the now-famous Bugy thread, a CH talked about a "Holding Area" for this. I suppose Unranked is the same but it makes it look like the CH is ignoring. I did not ignore any entry, just sometimes put it "on hold" when it was a variation of a previously submittd design. Which leads me to...
8) Concept/Design - I've also seen discussed the possibliity in the forums of using "concepts". Indeed this one is tough. My designers were very sensitive to doing variations of designs I liked so I got a lot of variations. I like that but it makes it hard to know where to rank them. When I do my final rankings tonight I will follow a rule (self-made) that no variation will be in the top ten so that totally different designs (although even if from the same designer) will be ranked higher than a variation unless that variation was somehow distinct. Indeed, that happened in my contest. Which leads me to...
9) Ranking - Here's a thought. I was fortunate to get 200 entries. Great for me until I rank. How about having a maximum number to rank to, like 20? I felt like I should rank every single entry submited so a limit, even an artificial one, would actually help the CH. Which leads me to...
10) Designer Entry - I am curious, designers. What makes you first enter a contest? I know the dollar prize is a lure. And I know a CH who gives feedback increases the chances of entering. But are there other less tangible reasons, especially that first day or two when you don't know how feedback-oriented the CH will be? Does the type of logo we choose in the profile make a differnece? Are some of you, say, "modern" only vs "traditional" in the sliders? I had more than enough designers but I've been curious about this ever since I've been following the site (ever since the PC World article). Which leads me to...
11) Designer Rankings - Seems like the ranking system is a little unfair to those designers who are newer to the site. If you joined two months ago your ranking will be much lower than the designer who joined a year ago. Not sure how to recitify that (a percent of entries?) - I just looked at their tenure when I was looking at their profile so I'd suggest CH's take that into consideration if they don't already. Which leads me to...
12) Surveys - This is for Tyler. Have you ever surveyed your CH's through survery monkey? Might be interesting to see results on a more "scientific" level than anecdotal level for their feedback.
OK. Going to close my contest out. Just to repeat - GREAT experience. I hope I was as good a CH as you were all designers.
I'll be back. That's a promise.
Paul
Let me start by saying I LOVE this site. Let me repeat - I LOVE this site. There is a load of talent here and the logistics to the contest are very good. I am part of a small business network called The Alternative Board that is in the US, Canada, and Great Britain with about 3,400 members. I showed an organization executive this site (my contest) and he was blown away by it. Even the woman who runs a public relations and advertising firm in my Denver group was highly impressed. Hopefully, this will lead to some more business comng in.
Now. for some specifics comments in no particular order:
1) Great talent! Congrats, designers. I could have picked any of about 12 designs and loved them!! Honestly! Which leads me to...
2) I love the international flavor, too. I get to brag about my designers in Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. You were all very polite and professional. Which leads me to...
3) This is fun. For future CH's, use this as a team-building exercise. I had my employees follow from Day One and some followed it more than I did. Got their feedback frequently. Which leads me to...
4) I used a 10-day contest. I suspect no matter what the time period selected, the middle part will experience a lull. At first I thought I'd recommend the 7-day contest to future CH's but I realized that designers have other things going on in their lives, too, just like we contest holders do when we tell you why we couldn't give feedback for a day or two. Which leads me to...
5) "Late" entries - I totally understand from other designer forum contests why they do this and because I had followed the site for two months I fully anticipated the swarm of entries the last 48 hours. And, like the CH's, designers all have lives, jobs, school, etc., so not everyone can or will submit an entry until late in the contest. Just my thoughts - human nature will favor the ones you've been working with. I think it's a risk to the designer but one I totally understand and don't necessarily think designers should avoid. However, I coudln't really give much feedback to the later entires. Which leads me to..
6) Feedback - this is really the whole key to the contest, isn't it? I tried in mine to respond to every single entry (I think I did - not sure). But I just want the designers to know that I couldn't always give really specific feedback only because those of us (like me) that are artistically challenged really don't know what we want. I'm reminded of a famous quote by a US Supreme Court justice in a pornography censorship case years ago. Basically, he said he couldn't define pronography but he knew it when he saw it. That is sort of my ability - I don't know specifics of good design - just when i saw it. Which leads me to..
7) Not Interested Category - . Maybe I'm too nice a person but I hate telling a designer this. I only moved withdrawals to this category. In the now-famous Bugy thread, a CH talked about a "Holding Area" for this. I suppose Unranked is the same but it makes it look like the CH is ignoring. I did not ignore any entry, just sometimes put it "on hold" when it was a variation of a previously submittd design. Which leads me to...
8) Concept/Design - I've also seen discussed the possibliity in the forums of using "concepts". Indeed this one is tough. My designers were very sensitive to doing variations of designs I liked so I got a lot of variations. I like that but it makes it hard to know where to rank them. When I do my final rankings tonight I will follow a rule (self-made) that no variation will be in the top ten so that totally different designs (although even if from the same designer) will be ranked higher than a variation unless that variation was somehow distinct. Indeed, that happened in my contest. Which leads me to...
9) Ranking - Here's a thought. I was fortunate to get 200 entries. Great for me until I rank. How about having a maximum number to rank to, like 20? I felt like I should rank every single entry submited so a limit, even an artificial one, would actually help the CH. Which leads me to...
10) Designer Entry - I am curious, designers. What makes you first enter a contest? I know the dollar prize is a lure. And I know a CH who gives feedback increases the chances of entering. But are there other less tangible reasons, especially that first day or two when you don't know how feedback-oriented the CH will be? Does the type of logo we choose in the profile make a differnece? Are some of you, say, "modern" only vs "traditional" in the sliders? I had more than enough designers but I've been curious about this ever since I've been following the site (ever since the PC World article). Which leads me to...
11) Designer Rankings - Seems like the ranking system is a little unfair to those designers who are newer to the site. If you joined two months ago your ranking will be much lower than the designer who joined a year ago. Not sure how to recitify that (a percent of entries?) - I just looked at their tenure when I was looking at their profile so I'd suggest CH's take that into consideration if they don't already. Which leads me to...
12) Surveys - This is for Tyler. Have you ever surveyed your CH's through survery monkey? Might be interesting to see results on a more "scientific" level than anecdotal level for their feedback.
OK. Going to close my contest out. Just to repeat - GREAT experience. I hope I was as good a CH as you were all designers.
I'll be back. That's a promise.
Paul
Logo Designer
thanks heaps for the feedback!
just to answer a few questions,
there is a thread going in the designer forums at the moment (which tyler started) and it looks like there will be some changes coming in the future that only allows a maximum of ~20 designs, possibly with the top ten all having to come from different designers.
also, in regard to why we enter a contest
it differs for all of us but for me its normally a combination of a few things:
1.the breif is good / thorough (not just, our company is called "------", design us a logo plz")
2. CH looks like they will be active with feedback and ranking
3. the CH wants something that is somewhat in line with my style (for example, i tend to avoid character / illustration based contests because im terrible at drawing)
4. probably the biggest deciding factor; whether or not i have a good idea while reading the brief.
most of us will read the brief then have a little brainstorm but i will always enter if a good idea comes to me straight away. Some contests / company names / breifs lend themselves towards good design / ideas and these contests will always be more popular. Some CH's have terrible taste, we don't like designing it if we don't personally like it and given the amount of contests, its not hard for us to find ones that we do like the look of and want to enter.
hope this helps,
im annoyed that i missed your contest because it looks like you were a very active CH
maybe next time =)
just to answer a few questions,
there is a thread going in the designer forums at the moment (which tyler started) and it looks like there will be some changes coming in the future that only allows a maximum of ~20 designs, possibly with the top ten all having to come from different designers.
also, in regard to why we enter a contest
it differs for all of us but for me its normally a combination of a few things:
1.the breif is good / thorough (not just, our company is called "------", design us a logo plz")
2. CH looks like they will be active with feedback and ranking
3. the CH wants something that is somewhat in line with my style (for example, i tend to avoid character / illustration based contests because im terrible at drawing)
4. probably the biggest deciding factor; whether or not i have a good idea while reading the brief.
most of us will read the brief then have a little brainstorm but i will always enter if a good idea comes to me straight away. Some contests / company names / breifs lend themselves towards good design / ideas and these contests will always be more popular. Some CH's have terrible taste, we don't like designing it if we don't personally like it and given the amount of contests, its not hard for us to find ones that we do like the look of and want to enter.
hope this helps,
im annoyed that i missed your contest because it looks like you were a very active CH
maybe next time =)
Logo Designer
just to simplify, two main reasons we enter a contest:
1. we like the brief / concepts put forth by client / company name / CH wants our style
2. Good CH: communication skills / amount of activity (ranking + feedback)
1. we like the brief / concepts put forth by client / company name / CH wants our style
2. Good CH: communication skills / amount of activity (ranking + feedback)
Logo Designer
Great feedback on Logotournament - thank you Paul.
All the best for any future contests.
All the best for any future contests.
Logo Designer
I hate to sound like the greedy opportunistic, but prize is definitely a factor in which contests I enter. If a contest holder is holding a contest for minimum prize, I generally dont enter that, not because 250 is cheap, but because of the fact that 15% of that is automatically deducted from the prize. I also avoid the lower prize contests where the contest holder wants a busy logo (ie, lots of work), i believe if a very graphical logo is required, a higher prize should be offered, as its a lot more work, more time, and more effort.
Logo Designer
What a great post Paul - thanks. I'm just upset now that I didn't enter. Maybe next time.
As for me, I will have to agree with illumina. The prize money is a major factor. Unlike Bugy I tend to enter the competitions that need an illustration, because that's what I love doing. Plus, I know that not a lot of people out there can't do that so my chances are good that I may even win ;-) And with illustrations I need a lot of time to work on them and to fine tune them to fit the CH's needs - we all know, time costs money!
Anyway... thanks for the great post. A lot of CH's out there need to read this!
As for me, I will have to agree with illumina. The prize money is a major factor. Unlike Bugy I tend to enter the competitions that need an illustration, because that's what I love doing. Plus, I know that not a lot of people out there can't do that so my chances are good that I may even win ;-) And with illustrations I need a lot of time to work on them and to fine tune them to fit the CH's needs - we all know, time costs money!
Anyway... thanks for the great post. A lot of CH's out there need to read this!
Client
Thanks for the responses. Bugy, great explanation on the importance of the brief. That's good info for the future. Illumina and Fatkid, no reason to shy away from the money factor :) Very legitimate motivation - it always works for me :)
Paul
Paul
Client
Thanks, SpeedLogo. Those were helpful comments.
As a CH, "Withdrawn" by the designer seems to be sort of our equivalent of "Not Interested" by the CH. Personally, I find it very deflating, especially after I've done what I'm supposed to and assign a rank and give feedback. I wish it wouldn't be allowed once a contest ends. One of my favorite designers withdrew all their designs in my contest after the contest was ended. I know there is another thread here that explains very well why designs get withdrawn, but it feels like when I was a kid playing ball and if another kid who brought the ball didn't get his way, he'd take his ball and go home. I ranked every entry I could only to find a whole bunch withdrawn after the contest was over.
Maybe I'm just too sensitive. :)
Paul
As a CH, "Withdrawn" by the designer seems to be sort of our equivalent of "Not Interested" by the CH. Personally, I find it very deflating, especially after I've done what I'm supposed to and assign a rank and give feedback. I wish it wouldn't be allowed once a contest ends. One of my favorite designers withdrew all their designs in my contest after the contest was ended. I know there is another thread here that explains very well why designs get withdrawn, but it feels like when I was a kid playing ball and if another kid who brought the ball didn't get his way, he'd take his ball and go home. I ranked every entry I could only to find a whole bunch withdrawn after the contest was over.
Maybe I'm just too sensitive. :)
Paul
Client
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the great post about your experience. I am loving this process too, the abundance of talent, and the international talent pool. I am in the middle of my contest and experiencing the "lull." I was getting a little discouraged because, while I do have some designs I like, I would like to see some new things since I only have a handful of designers that have submitted entries and I'm still waiting for something to completely knock my socks off.
Thanks again, I feel some anticipation for getting some late entries!
Kristen
Thanks for the great post about your experience. I am loving this process too, the abundance of talent, and the international talent pool. I am in the middle of my contest and experiencing the "lull." I was getting a little discouraged because, while I do have some designs I like, I would like to see some new things since I only have a handful of designers that have submitted entries and I'm still waiting for something to completely knock my socks off.
Thanks again, I feel some anticipation for getting some late entries!
Kristen
Client
Hey Kristin!
I am also holding a contest and strangely we have the same number of entries and about the same time left (I started my contest 5 hours before you)! I am also experiencing a lull in activity and have had only two designers make entries in the last 5 or 6 days. A little disappointing but get ready for a last two day rush of new entries which seems to always be the case.
btw you have some great logos in your contest. Really solid. I like #2 best. Would love to get feedback on my logos as well.
I hope to get some more ideas as well and am also waiting to get the socks knocked off.
Philip
I am also holding a contest and strangely we have the same number of entries and about the same time left (I started my contest 5 hours before you)! I am also experiencing a lull in activity and have had only two designers make entries in the last 5 or 6 days. A little disappointing but get ready for a last two day rush of new entries which seems to always be the case.
btw you have some great logos in your contest. Really solid. I like #2 best. Would love to get feedback on my logos as well.
I hope to get some more ideas as well and am also waiting to get the socks knocked off.
Philip
Client
Kristen, I followed LT for about two months until I decided to run a contest. One of the "universal truths" of LT I noticed was that no matter how much $$ you offer or how long you run the contest, the middle part will always have a lull. In fact, I timed my entry so that the first two days I would have a lot of time to look at and evaluate the entries and the same (especially so) for the last two days. Worked out perfectly for me. So be prepared! :)
Phil, since you asked for feedback from Kristen, I'll take it upon myself to offer my two pennies worth. My favorite would be a variation of #10. When I read your profile I think something that connotes movement would work well for your venture and the inner part of #10 seems to nail that. I agree that the outer part is a little too angular. Still, you've got some nice logos to work with so far and I bet you'll get a bunch of great ones soon.
I just ended my contest a few days ago and loved this whole expereience. My only negative (and it's not much) is that so many entries get withdrawn after the contest ends. I went to show this web site to a colleague who might use it but when we went to my contest there were so many withdrwan entries it didn't look good. The designers have elsewhere eloquently explained why they do that and I concur with them - still, just looked odd. But I WILL be back.
Paul
Phil, since you asked for feedback from Kristen, I'll take it upon myself to offer my two pennies worth. My favorite would be a variation of #10. When I read your profile I think something that connotes movement would work well for your venture and the inner part of #10 seems to nail that. I agree that the outer part is a little too angular. Still, you've got some nice logos to work with so far and I bet you'll get a bunch of great ones soon.
I just ended my contest a few days ago and loved this whole expereience. My only negative (and it's not much) is that so many entries get withdrawn after the contest ends. I went to show this web site to a colleague who might use it but when we went to my contest there were so many withdrwan entries it didn't look good. The designers have elsewhere eloquently explained why they do that and I concur with them - still, just looked odd. But I WILL be back.
Paul
Client
Thanks Paul,
I really appreciate the feedback (btw the designer of #10 was the winner of my fulcrum contest) and think a more formal feedback service would be a great component for LC. During my first contest last year a designer confirmed for me midway through the contest that I had ranked my number one correctly (even though it wasn't their's). I remember that and found it reassuring and really cool. It would be great to see a community poll/ranking of designers and CHs and see what they think as well as to get feedback on fonts, colors and such.
For me it has been a great education in marketing and design in addition to interfacing with a lot of really cool people from around the world.
Philip
I really appreciate the feedback (btw the designer of #10 was the winner of my fulcrum contest) and think a more formal feedback service would be a great component for LC. During my first contest last year a designer confirmed for me midway through the contest that I had ranked my number one correctly (even though it wasn't their's). I remember that and found it reassuring and really cool. It would be great to see a community poll/ranking of designers and CHs and see what they think as well as to get feedback on fonts, colors and such.
For me it has been a great education in marketing and design in addition to interfacing with a lot of really cool people from around the world.
Philip
Logo Designer
Yes, what a fantastic (and unsolicited) discourse on the process and experience from the contest holder's p.o.v. - designers and other contest holders take note! (You chose wisely, btw Paul:))
Logo Designer
A couple thoughts on overall designer ranking and the 'Not Interested' category within a given contest: on the latter point, it's true that it can be discouraging to all of a sudden find yourself in the dump heap after having been ranked highly. But each contest holder uses the tools at hand differently just as ordinary mortals do elsewhere;) Personally, I am not usually offended (disheartened yes) as I do appreciate (informed) decisiveness even more than waffling indecision (often spun out as 'keeping an open mind'). Then too, many contest holders use the Not Interested section only temporarily while they gather their thoughts on the rest of the entries. Often is the case where designs have been pulled out of the category to finish a contest rather highly upon final ranking. Lesson for designers (myself included), be patient and try to look at a given situation from different angles and possibilities.
Now, back to the former point about overall designer rankings: It's a bit of a moving target. There are a couple reasons I can think of which factor into a given ranking which are not obvious on the face of it. One is that the early adopter is often in an advantageous position in any new enterprise. That holds true in the contest arena and more particularly on a given contest site. So, good designers who get in early have a better chance of gaining position. Also, very active designers have a better chance of earning points/cups/money, again, if they have something in the way of skills to offer. Points aggregate and as it stands, determine directly positional ranking. Rather than get too hung up on all of that, I have my own standard by which I judge my overall efforts - I once in a while figure the ratio of wins/cups/top ten to the number of contest I have entered. Divide one into the other and get an n:n result which is a very concrete, stable target against which to set your sites. Improve your design skills, ability to read a brief, ability to 'read' a client, etc. - watch your ratio improve!
Cheers guys:)
Now, back to the former point about overall designer rankings: It's a bit of a moving target. There are a couple reasons I can think of which factor into a given ranking which are not obvious on the face of it. One is that the early adopter is often in an advantageous position in any new enterprise. That holds true in the contest arena and more particularly on a given contest site. So, good designers who get in early have a better chance of gaining position. Also, very active designers have a better chance of earning points/cups/money, again, if they have something in the way of skills to offer. Points aggregate and as it stands, determine directly positional ranking. Rather than get too hung up on all of that, I have my own standard by which I judge my overall efforts - I once in a while figure the ratio of wins/cups/top ten to the number of contest I have entered. Divide one into the other and get an n:n result which is a very concrete, stable target against which to set your sites. Improve your design skills, ability to read a brief, ability to 'read' a client, etc. - watch your ratio improve!
Cheers guys:)
LogoTournament Staff
12) Surveys - This is for Tyler. Have you ever surveyed your CH's through survery monkey? Might be interesting to see results on a more "scientific" level than anecdotal level for their feedback.
OK. Going to close my contest out. Just to repeat - GREAT experience. I hope I was as good a CH as you were all designers.
I'll be back. That's a promise.
Paul
Surveys are in the works, thanks for a little kick in the pants reminder. :) I think we will find out some very interesting things.
Client
Hi, everyone. I wanted to post some thoughts before I finish judging our contest (Pillar Property Services, LLC) and maybe then having things not be as fresh in my mind.
Let me start by saying I LOVE this site. Let me repeat - I LOVE this site. There is a load of talent here and the logistics to the contest are very good. I am part of a small business network called The Alternative Board that is in the US, Canada, and Great Britain with about 3,400 members. I showed an organization executive this site (my contest) and he was blown away by it. Even the woman who runs a public relations and advertising firm in my Denver group was highly impressed. Hopefully, this will lead to some more business comng in.
Now. for some specifics comments in no particular order:
1) Great talent! Congrats, designers. I could have picked any of about 12 designs and loved them!! Honestly! Which leads me to...
2) I love the international flavor, too. I get to brag about my designers in Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. You were all very polite and professional. Which leads me to...
3) This is fun. For future CH's, use this as a team-building exercise. I had my employees follow from Day One and some followed it more than I did. Got their feedback frequently. Which leads me to...
4) I used a 10-day contest. I suspect no matter what the time period selected, the middle part will experience a lull. At first I thought I'd recommend the 7-day contest to future CH's but I realized that designers have other things going on in their lives, too, just like we contest holders do when we tell you why we couldn't give feedback for a day or two. Which leads me to...
5) "Late" entries - I totally understand from other designer forum contests why they do this and because I had followed the site for two months I fully anticipated the swarm of entries the last 48 hours. And, like the CH's, designers all have lives, jobs, school, etc., so not everyone can or will submit an entry until late in the contest. Just my thoughts - human nature will favor the ones you've been working with. I think it's a risk to the designer but one I totally understand and don't necessarily think designers should avoid. However, I coudln't really give much feedback to the later entires. Which leads me to..
6) Feedback - this is really the whole key to the contest, isn't it? I tried in mine to respond to every single entry (I think I did - not sure). But I just want the designers to know that I couldn't always give really specific feedback only because those of us (like me) that are artistically challenged really don't know what we want. I'm reminded of a famous quote by a US Supreme Court justice in a pornography censorship case years ago. Basically, he said he couldn't define pronography but he knew it when he saw it. That is sort of my ability - I don't know specifics of good design - just when i saw it. Which leads me to..
7) Not Interested Category - . Maybe I'm too nice a person but I hate telling a designer this. I only moved withdrawals to this category. In the now-famous Bugy thread, a CH talked about a "Holding Area" for this. I suppose Unranked is the same but it makes it look like the CH is ignoring. I did not ignore any entry, just sometimes put it "on hold" when it was a variation of a previously submittd design. Which leads me to...
8) Concept/Design - I've also seen discussed the possibliity in the forums of using "concepts". Indeed this one is tough. My designers were very sensitive to doing variations of designs I liked so I got a lot of variations. I like that but it makes it hard to know where to rank them. When I do my final rankings tonight I will follow a rule (self-made) that no variation will be in the top ten so that totally different designs (although even if from the same designer) will be ranked higher than a variation unless that variation was somehow distinct. Indeed, that happened in my contest. Which leads me to...
9) Ranking - Here's a thought. I was fortunate to get 200 entries. Great for me until I rank. How about having a maximum number to rank to, like 20? I felt like I should rank every single entry submited so a limit, even an artificial one, would actually help the CH. Which leads me to...
10) Designer Entry - I am curious, designers. What makes you first enter a contest? I know the dollar prize is a lure. And I know a CH who gives feedback increases the chances of entering. But are there other less tangible reasons, especially that first day or two when you don't know how feedback-oriented the CH will be? Does the type of logo we choose in the profile make a differnece? Are some of you, say, "modern" only vs "traditional" in the sliders? I had more than enough designers but I've been curious about this ever since I've been following the site (ever since the PC World article). Which leads me to...
11) Designer Rankings - Seems like the ranking system is a little unfair to those designers who are newer to the site. If you joined two months ago your ranking will be much lower than the designer who joined a year ago. Not sure how to recitify that (a percent of entries?) - I just looked at their tenure when I was looking at their profile so I'd suggest CH's take that into consideration if they don't already. Which leads me to...
12) Surveys - This is for Tyler. Have you ever surveyed your CH's through survery monkey? Might be interesting to see results on a more "scientific" level than anecdotal level for their feedback.
OK. Going to close my contest out. Just to repeat - GREAT experience. I hope I was as good a CH as you were all designers.
I'll be back. That's a promise.
Paul
Let me start by saying I LOVE this site. Let me repeat - I LOVE this site. There is a load of talent here and the logistics to the contest are very good. I am part of a small business network called The Alternative Board that is in the US, Canada, and Great Britain with about 3,400 members. I showed an organization executive this site (my contest) and he was blown away by it. Even the woman who runs a public relations and advertising firm in my Denver group was highly impressed. Hopefully, this will lead to some more business comng in.
Now. for some specifics comments in no particular order:
1) Great talent! Congrats, designers. I could have picked any of about 12 designs and loved them!! Honestly! Which leads me to...
2) I love the international flavor, too. I get to brag about my designers in Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. You were all very polite and professional. Which leads me to...
3) This is fun. For future CH's, use this as a team-building exercise. I had my employees follow from Day One and some followed it more than I did. Got their feedback frequently. Which leads me to...
4) I used a 10-day contest. I suspect no matter what the time period selected, the middle part will experience a lull. At first I thought I'd recommend the 7-day contest to future CH's but I realized that designers have other things going on in their lives, too, just like we contest holders do when we tell you why we couldn't give feedback for a day or two. Which leads me to...
5) "Late" entries - I totally understand from other designer forum contests why they do this and because I had followed the site for two months I fully anticipated the swarm of entries the last 48 hours. And, like the CH's, designers all have lives, jobs, school, etc., so not everyone can or will submit an entry until late in the contest. Just my thoughts - human nature will favor the ones you've been working with. I think it's a risk to the designer but one I totally understand and don't necessarily think designers should avoid. However, I coudln't really give much feedback to the later entires. Which leads me to..
6) Feedback - this is really the whole key to the contest, isn't it? I tried in mine to respond to every single entry (I think I did - not sure). But I just want the designers to know that I couldn't always give really specific feedback only because those of us (like me) that are artistically challenged really don't know what we want. I'm reminded of a famous quote by a US Supreme Court justice in a pornography censorship case years ago. Basically, he said he couldn't define pronography but he knew it when he saw it. That is sort of my ability - I don't know specifics of good design - just when i saw it. Which leads me to..
7) Not Interested Category - . Maybe I'm too nice a person but I hate telling a designer this. I only moved withdrawals to this category. In the now-famous Bugy thread, a CH talked about a "Holding Area" for this. I suppose Unranked is the same but it makes it look like the CH is ignoring. I did not ignore any entry, just sometimes put it "on hold" when it was a variation of a previously submittd design. Which leads me to...
8) Concept/Design - I've also seen discussed the possibliity in the forums of using "concepts". Indeed this one is tough. My designers were very sensitive to doing variations of designs I liked so I got a lot of variations. I like that but it makes it hard to know where to rank them. When I do my final rankings tonight I will follow a rule (self-made) that no variation will be in the top ten so that totally different designs (although even if from the same designer) will be ranked higher than a variation unless that variation was somehow distinct. Indeed, that happened in my contest. Which leads me to...
9) Ranking - Here's a thought. I was fortunate to get 200 entries. Great for me until I rank. How about having a maximum number to rank to, like 20? I felt like I should rank every single entry submited so a limit, even an artificial one, would actually help the CH. Which leads me to...
10) Designer Entry - I am curious, designers. What makes you first enter a contest? I know the dollar prize is a lure. And I know a CH who gives feedback increases the chances of entering. But are there other less tangible reasons, especially that first day or two when you don't know how feedback-oriented the CH will be? Does the type of logo we choose in the profile make a differnece? Are some of you, say, "modern" only vs "traditional" in the sliders? I had more than enough designers but I've been curious about this ever since I've been following the site (ever since the PC World article). Which leads me to...
11) Designer Rankings - Seems like the ranking system is a little unfair to those designers who are newer to the site. If you joined two months ago your ranking will be much lower than the designer who joined a year ago. Not sure how to recitify that (a percent of entries?) - I just looked at their tenure when I was looking at their profile so I'd suggest CH's take that into consideration if they don't already. Which leads me to...
12) Surveys - This is for Tyler. Have you ever surveyed your CH's through survery monkey? Might be interesting to see results on a more "scientific" level than anecdotal level for their feedback.
OK. Going to close my contest out. Just to repeat - GREAT experience. I hope I was as good a CH as you were all designers.
I'll be back. That's a promise.
Paul
Client
Thanks, Steve, ECC, and Daz for your nice comments. Tyler, great to hear about the survey. I'll keep watching for it (and the results which I'm sure you'll share). We've started using our new logo (many excellent ones but no "buyer's remorse" here!) and are getting great comments.
Paul
Paul