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Maybe it's because I am not a trained illustrator (or have no formal training in Graphic Design for that matter) but I just can't get into using Illustrator to design my logos.

I use Flash!
(Yes, that's right, Flash).

I love it's simple drawing tools, and the way you can create shapes so easily.

But Flash is RGB? Shouldn't my logos be in CMYK? Yes! You can Import Flash files into Illustrator fairly cleanly. Once in a while I have to touch them up.

Got any weird design quirks of your own?

P.S. I also love using Flash to recreate logos for clients who only have crappy GIFs and want something they can print. Again, I love how easily I can trace stuff with Flash and recreate logos pretty fast.

I use Freehand, that's weird considering 99% of people use Illustrator.

I was trained on Illustrator, but I love Inkscape

I'd been a Photoshop junkie for 10 years before LT. I'm just now starting to get fast with Illustrator!

This is my excuse to HAVE to use Illustrator. I'm an InDesign girl... I have to learn how to think vector... I get pixels and layout on an everyday basis...

I have seen people use PowerPoint. God help us all.

No body in there right minds uses flash for logo design kind of like running the 100m with your legs tied together, flash is a web application and multimedia programme. For those of you who want to get to grips with illustrator check out the training on www.lynda.com its great and very affordable.

To answer youjr Question

YES all logo's should be in CMYK. If you are doing 1, 2 or 3 colours with out gradients USE Pantone colours. Unfortunate that Flash cannot export to CMYK...the only solution is to get your hands on corelDraw or Illustrator...

Brendan said:

No body in there right minds uses flash for logo design kind of like running the 100m with your legs tied together, flash is a web application and multimedia programme. For those of you who want to get to grips with illustrator check out the training on www.lynda.com its great and very affordable.

You are mistaken big time here, did you know that i design all my logos that won and that you see in my portfolio using just Flash ? and then i take it on Illustrator for final tuning, finishing up, adding gradients and adjusting colors to the CYMK like they were seen in RGB. ;)

Since you didn't use Flash, you wouldn't know its capabilities well, i've been using it for 10 years and to do interactive websites / multimedia cd presentations, you can check my portfolio if you want.

Now, inside the flash, its painting vector tool is very handy, i do a logo in just 5 mins, would you believe that ? and i start drafting it and making different variations in another 10 mins only :)

So, if you have no clue, don't say its like your legs are tide and all that hehe, i'm here and a live proof you can do it using flash, its just knowing how to ;) but i figured it in and out well in the 10 years i can do anything with it and design anything in vector, bare in mind, all my websites done in flash, contains 80 - 90% vector in all of its designed elements, its the core to be vector, and since both are adobe programs, it cordinates great with Illustrator and vise versa.

So, here you go guys, if you were wondering how my logos were done, using what program, now you know and i swear it takes me not more then 5 - 10 mins max to have any logo initiated ;)

Adding gradients and those tricky effects to make it 3d is the easiest part when i take it inside the illustrator, at the end when i created it inside the flash, it was all 100% vector, so it doesnt matter which program i use to make my logo right ? as long as its 100% vector and provided in .ai or .eps and good to go.

Cheers,

Kareem

Orion, i add on the colors to whatever part of the logo in seconds inside the illustrator and then i add gradients effect to it in seconds as well. So, it goes from flash to illustrator as a pure vector, editable and ungrouped too.

So, again, the main thing to it, is that Flash is already a vector based program and designed for creating vector based websites and adding interactivity to it mainly using vector shapes / elements, therefore making it light in size and when we add pictures / images inside a website, we do that lil easy trick, save as image inside the adobe and we adjust it to make the size as small as 40k or less with maintaining a good quality for the image. ;)

It's fun, handy and easier then Illustrator and yet it has good and powerful painting vector tools inside it that allows you to do alot of hard tweaks / editings in seconds as well.

Only those who use Flash well would know what i am talking about, and i guess " GoNorth " would know better, right ? ;)

bluejet said:

I use Freehand, that's weird considering 99% of people use Illustrator.

Thats another Adobe program, so most of the drawing tools and the idea in it are the same used in Freehand, both same companies products, so did that sink in for most of you wondering or questioning logos created inside the Flash ?

It's actually fun, didn't want to let that out, but so what ;) as long as i create good creative logos and deliver them to their clients in .eps well finished up with all those effects they see on screen and like, then no problem, everyone ends up going home happy.

The "Shouldn't my logos be in CMYK?" question was a rhetorical question to myself.

I don't think that people realize you can design logos in Flash (RGB) and then export them as .AI files and bring them into Illustrator and all of the colors are converted to CMYK.

Sometimes (as Dazzle has explained) you need to do a little touching up with the colors in Illustrator, but

I've also been dabbling in Flash for well over 10 years, since it was called FutureSplash Animator in 1996.

hehe, let them not knowing its capabilities, they have no clue how much it makes life easier and handy then other programs, at the end, we give the same results, because we do the finishing touches inside the illustrator, which are no big deal.

i've spent 10 yrs using both packages and still find truely accurate bezier point placement a pain.
the best package for these are font editors that give precise values to the BCP handles and also hinting so that your vector shapes can stand up to scaling and not find your bezier curve positioning has a kink in it!
Understanding proper point placement is something type designers do best and is something that takes more than a couple of minutes.

Well, I don't know about all the wonderful design capabilities of Flash, but in all honesty, keep in mind the rules of logo design.

1. It has to be visible in 1"x1"
2. It has to work in B&W
3. It has to be set up originally in Pantone PMS colors for offset press. (Why? Because every time you print them in CMYK or even on an RGB press, it will never print the same color and it is a pain in the @ss to color correct it.)

These are all PRINT qualities and although the whole of design is webby now, do not forget especially when designing, that these logos will go on business cards and the only business cards worth printing are on an offset press. Also if designing for a product - like coffee company or soft drink, or sports nutrition, all these are going on labels - machines that print PMS colors, plates, so always design first in Pantones, then do seps.

For example Flavorphil.com logo - my good friend who btw turned me onto this site, the girl did a beautiful logo, I am designing his website btw and helping him out with advertising. Boy when I opened the logo, I almost fell off the chair - holy vector land, half the colors in RGB, half in CMYK, 1000 vectors, I thought I was going to die. Eventually I had to recreate the logo, because the girl didn't know what Pantones were and how to use gradients and offset paths to create effects.

There is a reason Illustrator is the industry standard, guys don't try to reinvent the wheel. When you first design a logo in RGB it is a pain in the ass to match it up to Pantones, it will never be exact!

Am I right?

Sam

I've never used Flash, so I don't know about it, but I agree on the spot colors.

On here I do use gradients sometimes and full color, but for my personal clients, I normally just use 2 spot colors.

Even when I do work to sell on microstock sites, I start off using all Pantones b/c I know all the color numbers and I can match colors so much easier and quicker that way. Then I convert to full color (or RGB for the JPEGs) after I'm finished designing.

I suppose a lot of it has to do with what you learned on. I got thrown right in and had to teach myself Illustrator years ago; I had to learn everything the hard way. I never used transparencies for years (just divided shapes with the pathfinder tool and colored to mimic transparency) -- I think it all comes down to what you learn on and use most often.

Although if you can do it in Flash and import to Ill and have it print-ready, etc., more power to ya. :-)

Also, not to mention with logos, I can look at my swatch book and pick colors and know exactly what the finished product will look like.

" Although if you can do it in Flash and import to Ill and have it print-ready, etc., more power to ya. :-) "

yes bluecherry, you can do it in Flash at an ease and have it ready to print with all those nice effects in illustrator at an ease as well. so it makes no difference what programe use as long you can get the expected final output quality that the customer should have.

all mentioned above is doable and applicable, at the end its finished in illustrator and delivered as .ai or .eps with colors adjusted to CYMK with its correct pantones.

So few printing today is done in Pantone inks. Most clients are printing in process color on VistaPrint or other Internet printers who really don't care about PMS numbers. The disadvantage here is that color can be unpredictable. The advantage is that you can use gradients and aren't limited in colors when printing (or is that a disadvantage?).

Totally agree DesignDrive,
I hate it when I get a logo from a company that has all different stroke thicknesses to create an offset. JUST OFFSET THE LINE!! I get stuff people design with a stroke of 30 point or something crazy and they want me to cut vinyl with my plotter using their artwork... I always have to recreate too. Oh well.

The fact that people are using flash is crazy to me. I don't care if you do a logo in 5 min, if you knew illustrator or corel well enough you could probably save a lot of time. For one, you are staying in one program and don't have to switch to "clean up" or do effects... two, flash is great for what it is made for, but isn't a hammer better than a rock to drive a nail? Learn to use a hammer... the right way! There is a reason why 99.9% of people use them!

offbeatdesign said:

So few printing today is done in Pantone inks. Most clients are printing in process color on VistaPrint or other Internet printers who really don't care about PMS numbers. The disadvantage here is that color can be unpredictable. The advantage is that you can use gradients and aren't limited in colors when printing (or is that a disadvantage?).

Gosh, I hope not Vistaprint. I had horrendous results with them years ago, but they may have changed.

I use gradients with my Pantones; I just blend from a tint of one to a tint of the same w/ enough % between. Probably old school, though. :-)

I always to PMS b/c I can match via my swatchbook and know for sure. I always give them full color sets too, though and if I can, I try to use the PMS that are achievable in CMYK.

Although Dazz I wouldn't agree you can create in RGB and match to Pantone.

Will you pick the closer shade to it in CYMK , didnt mean matching it, and you can, its colors at the ends and you see the shades on your screen , if your in illustrator and its by default in the CYMK mode

Hi Dazzle why of course you can use flash to design a logo but that is really not what it was designed for just like you can use a club to kill a chicken it does get the job done.

lol, what is the problem what tool do i use as long as i ge the job done right ? i've delivered my logos to 3 winning contests and clients, and they used it in all sort of prints and they were pleased of the outcome and had no problems at all and the feedback as more then great.

So, back to square 1 , it doesn't matter what tool you use, as long as u give the excpected and proper final output in its proper formats.

bluecherrygraphics said:

Gosh, I hope not Vistaprint. I had horrendous results with them years ago, but they may have changed.

I use gradients with my Pantones; I just blend from a tint of one to a tint of the same w/ enough % between. Probably old school, though. :-)

I always to PMS b/c I can match via my swatchbook and know for sure. I always give them full color sets too, though and if I can, I try to use the PMS that are achievable in CMYK.

Although Dazz I wouldn't agree you can create in RGB and match to Pantone.

Yes, VP is terrible, but most people go to them because they're cheap.

You can create gradients between PMS colors, but printers can't generally recreate those gradients in PMS. They have to be done in CMYK on press.

Also, if you make a gradient between PMS colors you get a dirty mix. Try blending from black to red. Here's an example:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk146/offbeatdesign/blend.jpg

If you use the right mix of black you can get a smooth gradient without the brown/gray in the middle.

I don't ever blend between PMS colors; just from a tint of one to tint of same (ex: PMS 300 100% to PMS 300 30%); if I blend between 2 colors, I do a full color design. In fact, I didn't know it was even possible to recreate the gradients within PMS to PMS as spot color? I thought each step of the gradient was rendered in full color value.

I'm not much on gradients anyway. I really love flat color, clean, simple. Sadly, not a lot of clients here do. ;-)

VP actually did nice greeting cards for me; I did them for a personal Christmas card and they came out great. Their business cards were hideous though - at least the ones I got and my clients saw.

I don't have a lot of clients using them for cards any more. But yeah, they're certainly well-known and inexpensive.

^^ wish there was an edit button. :-) I mean the ones my client got from them and I saw

I see dirty gradients on logo sites all the time and it drives me crazy.

It is possible to print a gradient from one spot to another, I did it for the first time a few weeks ago, I had a very fussy client who wanted something crazy, I wasnt sure if it could be done but it worked out perfectly in the end he even want vercoing when last did any body use that printing process.