Forum
Logo Designer
I'm angry right now.
I've been submitting 55 revisions in 1 contest from blind to selection phase.
the client always ask minor changes and variation of background colors (4 including black).
At the beginning (blind) I always do his instructions (font, color and layout changes)
but kinda disspointed when few hours before the blind ended, my rank went to #3.
so later I ignore him a bit. and just send revision whenever I want. luckyly he change one of my design to #1 again on finalist after doing revisions.
revision...revision...revision...
And when the contest was 1 hour to the end of finalist phase, the client ask about final files. Wether I can provide it later....but he haven't picked it yet...
he asked for:
- Design with "beep" on A color ( sorry I still want to keep this anonymous and without hint)
- Design with "beep" on B color
- each design should be in 4 different background
- He also said that he want to print it on pen with 2 backgrounds... so he ask simpler version (without rendering/3d shading). Which he saw on my previous design.
- He also want to use one of the submission with Gradient/lighter shading near the "Beep" for Tshirt
- He want to have design with bigger "Beep" to use it on business card.
- I still don't know if he want the logo with or without tagline
I saw those request more than 15 minutes and I don't know what to say. He also asked to call me but I reject it. Then I responded and trying to reduce as much as possible file/version based on his request
He then asked me to make correction on 177 178 179 bla bla bla which need 6 submissions.
I did it and hoping for feedback.
Just now... he send 4 feedbacks and each comment request small tweaks to the main design. which mean those 6 latest design is useless. I;m angry right now and don't have any plan to do his request, instead I write this.
I did reply to him "hahaha :D"
I don't know when his request end. not including those crazy variations of final files. And based on my experience...as long our design is not selected, we're not winning yet. And the best part is the contest is $214.
I think I need admin to deal with this guy. is it necessary ?
PS : Other finalist is doing : 28, 43, 43, 26 submission. so I think everyone is doing hardwork and quite responsive to his requests.
I've been submitting 55 revisions in 1 contest from blind to selection phase.
the client always ask minor changes and variation of background colors (4 including black).
At the beginning (blind) I always do his instructions (font, color and layout changes)
but kinda disspointed when few hours before the blind ended, my rank went to #3.
so later I ignore him a bit. and just send revision whenever I want. luckyly he change one of my design to #1 again on finalist after doing revisions.
revision...revision...revision...
And when the contest was 1 hour to the end of finalist phase, the client ask about final files. Wether I can provide it later....but he haven't picked it yet...
he asked for:
- Design with "beep" on A color ( sorry I still want to keep this anonymous and without hint)
- Design with "beep" on B color
- each design should be in 4 different background
- He also said that he want to print it on pen with 2 backgrounds... so he ask simpler version (without rendering/3d shading). Which he saw on my previous design.
- He also want to use one of the submission with Gradient/lighter shading near the "Beep" for Tshirt
- He want to have design with bigger "Beep" to use it on business card.
- I still don't know if he want the logo with or without tagline
I saw those request more than 15 minutes and I don't know what to say. He also asked to call me but I reject it. Then I responded and trying to reduce as much as possible file/version based on his request
He then asked me to make correction on 177 178 179 bla bla bla which need 6 submissions.
I did it and hoping for feedback.
Just now... he send 4 feedbacks and each comment request small tweaks to the main design. which mean those 6 latest design is useless. I;m angry right now and don't have any plan to do his request, instead I write this.
I did reply to him "hahaha :D"
I don't know when his request end. not including those crazy variations of final files. And based on my experience...as long our design is not selected, we're not winning yet. And the best part is the contest is $214.
I think I need admin to deal with this guy. is it necessary ?
PS : Other finalist is doing : 28, 43, 43, 26 submission. so I think everyone is doing hardwork and quite responsive to his requests.
Logo Designer
Logo Designer
I have also experienced it, when it was in the final phase and the client requested a lot of changes and right away I did. and at the selection stage he chooses others to be winners. I think it hurts so much. : D
Logo Designer
I'm angry right now.
I've been submitting 55 revisions in 1 contest from blind to selection phase.
the client always ask minor changes and variation of background colors (4 including black).
At the beginning (blind) I always do his instructions (font, color and layout changes)
but kinda disspointed when few hours before the blind ended, my rank went to #3.
so later I ignore him a bit. and just send revision whenever I want. luckyly he change one of my design to #1 again on finalist after doing revisions.
revision...revision...revision...
And when the contest was 1 hour to the end of finalist phase, the client ask about final files. Wether I can provide it later....but he haven't picked it yet...
he asked for:
- Design with "beep" on A color ( sorry I still want to keep this anonymous and without hint)
- Design with "beep" on B color
- each design should be in 4 different background
- He also said that he want to print it on pen with 2 backgrounds... so he ask simpler version (without rendering/3d shading). Which he saw on my previous design.
- He also want to use one of the submission with Gradient/lighter shading near the "Beep" for Tshirt
- He want to have design with bigger "Beep" to use it on business card.
- I still don't know if he want the logo with or without tagline
I saw those request more than 15 minutes and I don't know what to say. He also asked to call me but I reject it. Then I responded and trying to reduce as much as possible file/version based on his request
He then asked me to make correction on 177 178 179 bla bla bla which need 6 submissions.
I did it and hoping for feedback.
Just now... he send 4 feedbacks and each comment request small tweaks to the main design. which mean those 6 latest design is useless. I;m angry right now and don't have any plan to do his request, instead I write this.
I did reply to him "hahaha :D"
I don't know when his request end. not including those crazy variations of final files. And based on my experience...as long our design is not selected, we're not winning yet. And the best part is the contest is $214.
I think I need admin to deal with this guy. is it necessary ?
PS : Other finalist is doing : 28, 43, 43, 26 submission. so I think everyone is doing hardwork and quite responsive to his requests.
I've been submitting 55 revisions in 1 contest from blind to selection phase.
the client always ask minor changes and variation of background colors (4 including black).
At the beginning (blind) I always do his instructions (font, color and layout changes)
but kinda disspointed when few hours before the blind ended, my rank went to #3.
so later I ignore him a bit. and just send revision whenever I want. luckyly he change one of my design to #1 again on finalist after doing revisions.
revision...revision...revision...
And when the contest was 1 hour to the end of finalist phase, the client ask about final files. Wether I can provide it later....but he haven't picked it yet...
he asked for:
- Design with "beep" on A color ( sorry I still want to keep this anonymous and without hint)
- Design with "beep" on B color
- each design should be in 4 different background
- He also said that he want to print it on pen with 2 backgrounds... so he ask simpler version (without rendering/3d shading). Which he saw on my previous design.
- He also want to use one of the submission with Gradient/lighter shading near the "Beep" for Tshirt
- He want to have design with bigger "Beep" to use it on business card.
- I still don't know if he want the logo with or without tagline
I saw those request more than 15 minutes and I don't know what to say. He also asked to call me but I reject it. Then I responded and trying to reduce as much as possible file/version based on his request
He then asked me to make correction on 177 178 179 bla bla bla which need 6 submissions.
I did it and hoping for feedback.
Just now... he send 4 feedbacks and each comment request small tweaks to the main design. which mean those 6 latest design is useless. I;m angry right now and don't have any plan to do his request, instead I write this.
I did reply to him "hahaha :D"
I don't know when his request end. not including those crazy variations of final files. And based on my experience...as long our design is not selected, we're not winning yet. And the best part is the contest is $214.
I think I need admin to deal with this guy. is it necessary ?
PS : Other finalist is doing : 28, 43, 43, 26 submission. so I think everyone is doing hardwork and quite responsive to his requests.
sabar mas, rejeki mboten ketuker.. nek urung rejeki yo ngono kuwi
Logo Designer
The most fascinating thing happen next - CH picks another designer as a winner. Nothing new.
Logo Designer
Every one of these, EVERY SINGLE TIME.
I have been a designer for many years and I can't tell you how this is so true!!!
https://www.lifewire.com/early-warning-signs-of-bad-client-1697724
Question is, when to stop and do no more? Seems when we need money we are a magnet for these type of clients. I tend to faze out and disappear. Maybe they don't know they are this way or they use these tactics on everyone. maybe to take advantage.. We tend to be flexible because we care and love what we do and become easy targets.
We must be wise and alert especially those who poor talk to manipulate (but really only cash poor) when they have warehouses full of millions of $ in merchandise or artifacts. (from several experiences) WATCH FOR THE BIG RED FLAGS
But one big problem when working online we can't see them. But we can certainly hear them if we "listen" for these same warnings.
Safeguard minimums:
1. Get 1/2 payment up front if new clients until they build trust with you.
2. Get a legal contract if promises/agreements are made.
3. Don't open up a bunch of web accounts exclusively for a client especially if not free, because most likely they'll promise to pay for them and then doesn't take care of that.
4. Don't buy specialized software, hardware or equipment that will only benefit a client
Love what you do!
I have been a designer for many years and I can't tell you how this is so true!!!
https://www.lifewire.com/early-warning-signs-of-bad-client-1697724
Question is, when to stop and do no more? Seems when we need money we are a magnet for these type of clients. I tend to faze out and disappear. Maybe they don't know they are this way or they use these tactics on everyone. maybe to take advantage.. We tend to be flexible because we care and love what we do and become easy targets.
We must be wise and alert especially those who poor talk to manipulate (but really only cash poor) when they have warehouses full of millions of $ in merchandise or artifacts. (from several experiences) WATCH FOR THE BIG RED FLAGS
But one big problem when working online we can't see them. But we can certainly hear them if we "listen" for these same warnings.
Safeguard minimums:
1. Get 1/2 payment up front if new clients until they build trust with you.
2. Get a legal contract if promises/agreements are made.
3. Don't open up a bunch of web accounts exclusively for a client especially if not free, because most likely they'll promise to pay for them and then doesn't take care of that.
4. Don't buy specialized software, hardware or equipment that will only benefit a client
Love what you do!
Logo Designer
great post Tere!
I feel trapped. too hard to handle, too late to run away...already doing too much effort.
I feel trapped. too hard to handle, too late to run away...already doing too much effort.
Logo Designer
great post Tere!
I feel trapped. too hard to handle, too late to run away...already doing too much effort.
I feel trapped. too hard to handle, too late to run away...already doing too much effort.
Yes, that happens often. It's a hard place to be. I just push through the job and count it as a loss of my time.
I was mainly commenting on outside clients, because we don't have communication here on LT.
And to distinguish, I am mostly talking about clients away from LT.
Here on LT in regard to CHs who take us for a run, it is sad and more often than not the reward is designing.
It''s mostly guessing and part skill. There is no protection,, no guarantee. We have no idea how a CH decides on the logo they pick. I think we are all epecially baffled when they pick a horrible generic logo over many fabulous logos in the same contest. Makes me wonder what is really happening that we don't now about.
We love what we do and get taken advantage of here too.
Logo Designer
Tere your comments really reflect your experience :)
Thanks for sharing. I will learn alot from you.
Thanks for sharing. I will learn alot from you.
Logo Designer
welcome to the crowd source world.
At least with other clients you can charge for your time!
But if you love doing this - keep on doing it for the fun! IF you get frustrated with change requests - just stop doing them.
At least with other clients you can charge for your time!
But if you love doing this - keep on doing it for the fun! IF you get frustrated with change requests - just stop doing them.
Logo Designer
Yes!
Here's another one that always makes me laugh.
https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/magazine/2011/04/MissingMissy.pdf
love it.
Logo Designer
Here's another one that always makes me laugh.
https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/magazine/2011/04/MissingMissy.pdf
love it.
https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/magazine/2011/04/MissingMissy.pdf
love it.
That's a good one! LOL
Logo Designer
"Hi, the styles that I like are # 343, 344, 345, 245, 311, 243, and the 2 extras are 341 and 333. THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!
HOW WOULD I PAY YOU FOR THE 2 EXTRA VERSIONS?? PAYPAL? $20.00"
$20.00?
You're a real Gentleman.
HOW WOULD I PAY YOU FOR THE 2 EXTRA VERSIONS?? PAYPAL? $20.00"
$20.00?
You're a real Gentleman.
Logo Designer
Not so funny. Gives me an ill feeling : ))) but still room to laugh.
Logo Designer
welcome to the crowd source world.
At least with other clients you can charge for your time!
But if you love doing this - keep on doing it for the fun! IF you get frustrated with change requests - just stop doing them.
At least with other clients you can charge for your time!
But if you love doing this - keep on doing it for the fun! IF you get frustrated with change requests - just stop doing them.
Tere your comments really reflect your experience :)
Thanks for sharing. I will learn alot from you.
Thanks for sharing. I will learn alot from you.
These really do reflect my world in business. over the years. But I never purchased the equipment...good thing I didn't, one defunct and the other got in trouble with the SEC. : /
Just always be alert and use wisdom.
Logo Designer
welcome to the crowd source world.
At least with other clients you can charge for your time!
But if you love doing this - keep on doing it for the fun! IF you get frustrated with change requests - just stop doing them.
At least with other clients you can charge for your time!
But if you love doing this - keep on doing it for the fun! IF you get frustrated with change requests - just stop doing them.
Got to use wisdom here too because sometimes they try to finagle their way into not paying for extra time.
Logo Designer
@Corvin
+1
@Tere
yes, some clients really want to maximize their money, design result, contest duration, etc.
+1
@Tere
yes, some clients really want to maximize their money, design result, contest duration, etc.
Logo Designer
You should also make a topic with contests you won with generic 2-minute designs.
https://logotournament.com/contests/century-benefits
https://logotournament.com/contests/ipromoteu
https://logotournament.com/contests/tcb-communications-2
https://logotournament.com/contests/workforce-link
https://logotournament.com/contests/294399
https://logotournament.com/contests/kitchen-warehouse-uk
https://logotournament.com/contests/ab-industrial
https://logotournament.com/contests/future-proofing-innovation-strategies-limited
https://logotournament.com/contests/giniko
https://logotournament.com/contests/ggm
https://logotournament.com/contests/wls-construction
https://logotournament.com/contests/evolution-surgical
https://logotournament.com/contests/tullamarine-plumbing-drainage
https://logotournament.com/contests/noel-communciations-inc
https://logotournament.com/contests/integrated-dental-implant-center
and the list can go on.
These are just from your first two pages (and I skipped a lot of them), couldn't spend more than 5 minutes selecting.
Do you think we 'need admin to deal with you'?
So, I guess it's just your karma.
https://logotournament.com/contests/century-benefits
https://logotournament.com/contests/ipromoteu
https://logotournament.com/contests/tcb-communications-2
https://logotournament.com/contests/workforce-link
https://logotournament.com/contests/294399
https://logotournament.com/contests/kitchen-warehouse-uk
https://logotournament.com/contests/ab-industrial
https://logotournament.com/contests/future-proofing-innovation-strategies-limited
https://logotournament.com/contests/giniko
https://logotournament.com/contests/ggm
https://logotournament.com/contests/wls-construction
https://logotournament.com/contests/evolution-surgical
https://logotournament.com/contests/tullamarine-plumbing-drainage
https://logotournament.com/contests/noel-communciations-inc
https://logotournament.com/contests/integrated-dental-implant-center
and the list can go on.
These are just from your first two pages (and I skipped a lot of them), couldn't spend more than 5 minutes selecting.
Do you think we 'need admin to deal with you'?
So, I guess it's just your karma.
Logo Designer
Not so funny. Gives me an ill feeling : ))) but still room to laugh.
I like this one better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
this one also funny...
https://logotournament.com/contests/coast-compliance-training
client ask not to use Trajan in public comment :D
Logo Designer
You should also make a topic with contests you won with generic 2-minute designs.
https://logotournament.com/contests/century-benefits
https://logotournament.com/contests/ipromoteu
https://logotournament.com/contests/tcb-communications-2
https://logotournament.com/contests/workforce-link
https://logotournament.com/contests/294399
https://logotournament.com/contests/kitchen-warehouse-uk
https://logotournament.com/contests/ab-industrial
https://logotournament.com/contests/future-proofing-innovation-strategies-limited
https://logotournament.com/contests/giniko
https://logotournament.com/contests/ggm
https://logotournament.com/contests/wls-construction
https://logotournament.com/contests/evolution-surgical
https://logotournament.com/contests/tullamarine-plumbing-drainage
https://logotournament.com/contests/noel-communciations-inc
https://logotournament.com/contests/integrated-dental-implant-center
and the list can go on.
These are just from your first two pages (and I skipped a lot of them), couldn't spend more than 5 minutes selecting.
Do you think we 'need admin to deal with you'?
So, I guess it's just your karma.
https://logotournament.com/contests/century-benefits
https://logotournament.com/contests/ipromoteu
https://logotournament.com/contests/tcb-communications-2
https://logotournament.com/contests/workforce-link
https://logotournament.com/contests/294399
https://logotournament.com/contests/kitchen-warehouse-uk
https://logotournament.com/contests/ab-industrial
https://logotournament.com/contests/future-proofing-innovation-strategies-limited
https://logotournament.com/contests/giniko
https://logotournament.com/contests/ggm
https://logotournament.com/contests/wls-construction
https://logotournament.com/contests/evolution-surgical
https://logotournament.com/contests/tullamarine-plumbing-drainage
https://logotournament.com/contests/noel-communciations-inc
https://logotournament.com/contests/integrated-dental-implant-center
and the list can go on.
These are just from your first two pages (and I skipped a lot of them), couldn't spend more than 5 minutes selecting.
Do you think we 'need admin to deal with you'?
So, I guess it's just your karma.
I wondering if he purposely ignored your post, or he didn't realize that you was talking about him.
Logo Designer
I read it.
But my interest is on fellow designers who shared their experience or funny video :D
Well, because they help me.
But my interest is on fellow designers who shared their experience or funny video :D
Well, because they help me.
LogoTournament Staff
From the support side I can say that we have had customers who need about 30-50 customer support emails to get through a contest.
Logo Designer
From the support side I can say that we have had customers who need about 30-50 customer support emails to get through a contest.
Oh my! Can you fire a CH? : ))
Logo Designer
lol My dad used to say, “It is called corporation bull crap ". LOL. Also, he told me that when you draw a horse and you let clients give some their the inputs, you ended up drawing a camel. LOL
Logo Designer
lol My dad used to say, “It is called corporation bull crap ". LOL. Also, he told me that when you draw a horse and you let clients give some their the inputs, you ended up drawing a camel. LOL
Too funny, so true!
Logo Designer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVtLtHR-xek
this is an interesting resource about the topic, by paula scher from the series abstract
this is what happens with every customer when they see the proposal.
Customers are all very hard, I kind of lost two of my best customers in the last month and usually every year I let some of them go.
Are more the customers that I quit working for than the ones tha fire me.
The good customer is definitely the one that pays very well for very little work.
p.s. I don't consider CH my customer, CH is LT's customer in my opinion not the user's customer so choosing another designer doesn't make it a hard customer at the end
this is an interesting resource about the topic, by paula scher from the series abstract
this is what happens with every customer when they see the proposal.
Customers are all very hard, I kind of lost two of my best customers in the last month and usually every year I let some of them go.
Are more the customers that I quit working for than the ones tha fire me.
The good customer is definitely the one that pays very well for very little work.
p.s. I don't consider CH my customer, CH is LT's customer in my opinion not the user's customer so choosing another designer doesn't make it a hard customer at the end
Logo Designer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVtLtHR-xek
this is an interesting resource about the topic, by paula scher from the series abstract
this is what happens with every customer when they see the proposal.
Customers are all very hard, I kind of lost two of my best customers in the last month and usually every year I let some of them go.
Are more the customers that I quit working for than the ones tha fire me.
The good customer is definitely the one that pays very well for very little work.
p.s. I don't consider CH my customer, CH is LT's customer in my opinion not the user's customer so choosing another designer doesn't make it a hard customer at the end
this is an interesting resource about the topic, by paula scher from the series abstract
this is what happens with every customer when they see the proposal.
Customers are all very hard, I kind of lost two of my best customers in the last month and usually every year I let some of them go.
Are more the customers that I quit working for than the ones tha fire me.
The good customer is definitely the one that pays very well for very little work.
p.s. I don't consider CH my customer, CH is LT's customer in my opinion not the user's customer so choosing another designer doesn't make it a hard customer at the end
+1 Even though we love what we do, it is difficult work (most of the time)
Logo Designer
TL;DR
In such a situation, I usually tell the client, first of all, to choose THE logo, and all additional versions will be included along with final files. Also, we can still work on all the minor details after the contest has ended.
In such a situation, I usually tell the client, first of all, to choose THE logo, and all additional versions will be included along with final files. Also, we can still work on all the minor details after the contest has ended.
Logo Designer
Whatever happen...as long we don't show our anger....keep patience, the sun will always shine again :)
Logo Designer
the real issue is that a changes-request based process is the worst way to make creative work.
change requests should not be allowed and direct communication between CH and user should not be allowed.
Brief changes should not be allowed as well.
The only way to have a real contest is to have one and only brief, everyone participating in the contest during blind without getting private requests from CH and after the blind phase it's over CH can take a few days to pick up the winner.
if CH asks for changes it means he doesn't like the entry and instead of asking for changes, should pick up another logo that he likes as it is without making any changes.
on the other hand is not right to make changes after the contest it's over, or even giving lots of extra files, or even worse, asking couple of dollars for a few more logos.
change requests should not be allowed and direct communication between CH and user should not be allowed.
Brief changes should not be allowed as well.
The only way to have a real contest is to have one and only brief, everyone participating in the contest during blind without getting private requests from CH and after the blind phase it's over CH can take a few days to pick up the winner.
if CH asks for changes it means he doesn't like the entry and instead of asking for changes, should pick up another logo that he likes as it is without making any changes.
on the other hand is not right to make changes after the contest it's over, or even giving lots of extra files, or even worse, asking couple of dollars for a few more logos.
Logo Designer
IMHO when the client declares that he will choose my logo, but... he just would like to see a bunch of versions of the logo, it's okay to ensure the client that any additional version OF THE LOGO and modifications like a landscape, one color, and negative (or different backgrounds) will be supplied after the contest is over. And I think this is along with the rules of the LT.
Also, after the contest it's over we are obliged to correct the logo until the client is happy and approves the final files. Surely, this is not proposing any additional work to win the contest, not any additional and different logos or backdoor deals.
Also, after the contest it's over we are obliged to correct the logo until the client is happy and approves the final files. Surely, this is not proposing any additional work to win the contest, not any additional and different logos or backdoor deals.
Logo Designer
When I do a quote for a new logo, I usually tell the client the revision limitations in my email before I start.