Forum
Client
Now, since the contest was cancelled, we feel that we owe an explanation at least to the designers that were still participating.
As we said to the LT Team, we were in disappointment with the course of events of our contest, and that included both the behavior of certain designers and the actions of Logo Tournament. If these actions were result of admin decision, moderators decision or other members, we cannot know and it should not matter to us (or any client).
What happened?
We were in the Top 5 phase. Which means we had picked our favorite designs and designers. This forms a certain condition upon which we decide, using the available information: the evaluated and ranked designs and the given narrow time-frame of the stage “top 5”.
Then suddenly 3 out of our top 5 designers and their picked logos disappear!! If that had happened during the open phase, we might be ok. But it happened in the top 5 phase, and we were not ok with it. Because very simply put, it changes completely the game. 3 out of 5.
Also, just like a designer spends time and effort in making his submissions, you have to understand that a team of 3 people here at MotoGreece spent all day long from the start of the contest, every day up to that point, doing nothing else but sitting in front of a computer, watching, evaluating, thinking, re-evaluating, wondering what would look nice, what suits us better, brainstorming, discussing etc. We even stayed up late at night, every night - due to the time difference - to constantly watch and evaluate the designs.
And then suddenly, they are gone. We were pissed-off.
We understand that LT has chosen to follow certain policies and rules (which include that the designer has the right to withdraw designs at any time), but the designers and the LT should consider this:
We feel that
a) Allowing designers to withdraw all of their designs while in top 5 stage, shows a complete lack of respect to the client. It might be ok during the open phase. But in the top 5 phase, it’s just wrong, it’s disrespectful. Like you, so do we spend all day long waiting and evaluating.
b) When this happens multiple times (like in our case, 3 out 5 designers DURING the top 5) it changes the game, and that alone could be a reason for anyone to ask for a restart. It also shows that we cannot be sure that this won’t happen again during the remaining of the contest! If anyone withdraws whenever he/she feels like it, then what are we doing here, really? Why are we wasting our time?
b) Withdrawing or removing (by admin action, or logo court) all of the designs of a designer, especially while he is ranked #1 by the contest holder, and without prior notice to the contest holder, also shows complete lack of respect to the client. For the same reasons.
We asked LT, and we also ask you, designers, *Would YOU accept, if you were a client, to continue under such circumstances? *
Seeing it from a client’s perspective, it is unacceptable, it is unethical business wise, and thus we felt reluctant to continue with the contest, if the removed designs were not reinstated.
Or at least, LT should allow for a redress of disputed designs, with the consult of the client. That’s what we feel.
We were also frustrated by the fact that our enquiry had such a late response (and because it happened in the limited time-frame of the “top 5”). LT said that it was because of the Monday-Friday working days. YET, LT moved lightning fast to remove designs during Sunday. That is a contradiction.
Finally,
Regarding the reference to a particular image that was allegedly used by the offending designer:
a) The motorcycle depicted looks like a BMW GS1200ADV. It is a motorcycle that sells thousands each year, it is the best seller, globally, from a big manufacturer. It has become the definition of motorcycling touring (which is what our company does). It IS - in the motorcycling world - a common, OBVIOUS CONCEPT.
b) A motorcycle leaning in a corner IS - in the motorcycling world - a common, far too OBVIOUS CONCEPT.
c) The combination of (a) and (b) has as a result thousands of images of the said motorcycle model, to be found all over the internet. Thousands of it. It’s not the discovery of wheel. And many of them, with the exact same angle of shot, with the exact same perspective, and the exact same equipment on. It IS - in the motorcycling world - a common, OBVIOUS CONCEPT.
These are not stated in defense of the disputed designer. We have no ties with him. All these are stated in defense of our contest and in defense of the FACT that once we saw the submitted logos, we felt that it could be the one. The figure of the particular motorcycle could be changed at anytime without really causing any problem.
As a closing statement, we do apologize but we also feel that we certainly are not solely responsible for this.
We could restart a contest, but we now feel that we have lost credibility among the designer’s community.
Regards,
Motogreece Team.
PS: LT has issued a refund, and this is in honour of them, for trying to keep the client satisfied. But some improvements, on the way LT handles withdrawals should be considered
As we said to the LT Team, we were in disappointment with the course of events of our contest, and that included both the behavior of certain designers and the actions of Logo Tournament. If these actions were result of admin decision, moderators decision or other members, we cannot know and it should not matter to us (or any client).
What happened?
We were in the Top 5 phase. Which means we had picked our favorite designs and designers. This forms a certain condition upon which we decide, using the available information: the evaluated and ranked designs and the given narrow time-frame of the stage “top 5”.
Then suddenly 3 out of our top 5 designers and their picked logos disappear!! If that had happened during the open phase, we might be ok. But it happened in the top 5 phase, and we were not ok with it. Because very simply put, it changes completely the game. 3 out of 5.
Also, just like a designer spends time and effort in making his submissions, you have to understand that a team of 3 people here at MotoGreece spent all day long from the start of the contest, every day up to that point, doing nothing else but sitting in front of a computer, watching, evaluating, thinking, re-evaluating, wondering what would look nice, what suits us better, brainstorming, discussing etc. We even stayed up late at night, every night - due to the time difference - to constantly watch and evaluate the designs.
And then suddenly, they are gone. We were pissed-off.
We understand that LT has chosen to follow certain policies and rules (which include that the designer has the right to withdraw designs at any time), but the designers and the LT should consider this:
We feel that
a) Allowing designers to withdraw all of their designs while in top 5 stage, shows a complete lack of respect to the client. It might be ok during the open phase. But in the top 5 phase, it’s just wrong, it’s disrespectful. Like you, so do we spend all day long waiting and evaluating.
b) When this happens multiple times (like in our case, 3 out 5 designers DURING the top 5) it changes the game, and that alone could be a reason for anyone to ask for a restart. It also shows that we cannot be sure that this won’t happen again during the remaining of the contest! If anyone withdraws whenever he/she feels like it, then what are we doing here, really? Why are we wasting our time?
b) Withdrawing or removing (by admin action, or logo court) all of the designs of a designer, especially while he is ranked #1 by the contest holder, and without prior notice to the contest holder, also shows complete lack of respect to the client. For the same reasons.
We asked LT, and we also ask you, designers, *Would YOU accept, if you were a client, to continue under such circumstances? *
Seeing it from a client’s perspective, it is unacceptable, it is unethical business wise, and thus we felt reluctant to continue with the contest, if the removed designs were not reinstated.
Or at least, LT should allow for a redress of disputed designs, with the consult of the client. That’s what we feel.
We were also frustrated by the fact that our enquiry had such a late response (and because it happened in the limited time-frame of the “top 5”). LT said that it was because of the Monday-Friday working days. YET, LT moved lightning fast to remove designs during Sunday. That is a contradiction.
Finally,
Regarding the reference to a particular image that was allegedly used by the offending designer:
a) The motorcycle depicted looks like a BMW GS1200ADV. It is a motorcycle that sells thousands each year, it is the best seller, globally, from a big manufacturer. It has become the definition of motorcycling touring (which is what our company does). It IS - in the motorcycling world - a common, OBVIOUS CONCEPT.
b) A motorcycle leaning in a corner IS - in the motorcycling world - a common, far too OBVIOUS CONCEPT.
c) The combination of (a) and (b) has as a result thousands of images of the said motorcycle model, to be found all over the internet. Thousands of it. It’s not the discovery of wheel. And many of them, with the exact same angle of shot, with the exact same perspective, and the exact same equipment on. It IS - in the motorcycling world - a common, OBVIOUS CONCEPT.
These are not stated in defense of the disputed designer. We have no ties with him. All these are stated in defense of our contest and in defense of the FACT that once we saw the submitted logos, we felt that it could be the one. The figure of the particular motorcycle could be changed at anytime without really causing any problem.
As a closing statement, we do apologize but we also feel that we certainly are not solely responsible for this.
We could restart a contest, but we now feel that we have lost credibility among the designer’s community.
Regards,
Motogreece Team.
PS: LT has issued a refund, and this is in honour of them, for trying to keep the client satisfied. But some improvements, on the way LT handles withdrawals should be considered
Logo Designer
Sorry to see that this contest has ended in such a way.
Regarding the withdrawn entries; it may be possible that withdrawn designs were challenged by another designer as being too similar to another design/or existing photo and the designs were withdrawn to avoid a LogoCourt.
I can sympathize with you about the issue of an image of such a well known bike, but that's the way it is on LogoTournament. It can be frustrating for the designers as well. The only way around it would be to have a sort of generic picture which is not recognisable as any particular bike, or for the designer to take his own photo of a particular bike.
It is a pity this contest ended like this, as I think there were some good possibilities for an excellent logo.
Regarding the withdrawn entries; it may be possible that withdrawn designs were challenged by another designer as being too similar to another design/or existing photo and the designs were withdrawn to avoid a LogoCourt.
I can sympathize with you about the issue of an image of such a well known bike, but that's the way it is on LogoTournament. It can be frustrating for the designers as well. The only way around it would be to have a sort of generic picture which is not recognisable as any particular bike, or for the designer to take his own photo of a particular bike.
It is a pity this contest ended like this, as I think there were some good possibilities for an excellent logo.
LogoTournament Staff
We only just saw this post.
This issue certainly could have been handled differently by both Support and from the Client end. The client has some good points but does not consider certain facts.
We have reached out the the client. We hope there might be some way to help this move forward.
This issue certainly could have been handled differently by both Support and from the Client end. The client has some good points but does not consider certain facts.
We have reached out the the client. We hope there might be some way to help this move forward.
Logo Designer
I personally have several photos of my own that could be used but most of them are straight on and yes a S turn would be awesome to have I'll need to have some done next spring. Copyright wouldl not be an issue